that's what's going on with james murdoch. as a ceo of this division, it's his job to know and he's had several years, as john points out, to know. the fact that he didn't suggests he's either dumb or he's incompetent. >> vicky ward, you know the murdoch family. what toll is this taking on rupert? >> i think it's taking an enormous toll. it would be very surprising if it wasn't, howie. i would like to address a few things that have come out. unless you actually have worked for the murdochs, you don't know. so to take john's point about how could he not know what was going on at the "news of the world," quite frankly, rupert murdoch 20 years ago, 30 years ago, those english papers were his babies, he'd broken the print unions to basically create that empire. then he did call those -- newspaper editors all the time. but news corp. has evolved. it's become a much larger, much more global company. those newspapers create a fraction of its wealth. now i think it's quite legitimate when he says he delegated and, yes, there were prob